Park Cities YMCA Submits Renovation Plans
Park Cities YMCA officials filed plans to renovate their Preston Road facility Tuesday afternoon, despite mixed opinions from neighbors.
For more information, including those mixed opinions, see this Friday’s Park Cities People. To read the planning and zoning application for yourself, jump:
I will be so grateful for this renovation. It is long past due.
Wow … that is big. Where is the parking?
It says parking for not less than 300 cars will be underground. Cool.
Is this going to be another 10 YEAR Chase Bank deal?
they should use that land for a new school
This plan is an abomnination in our residential neighborhood. Whats next? A bowling alley at the Unitarian Church? P&Z AND CITY COUNCIL: PLEASE PRESERVE THE RESIDENTIAL CHARACTER OF THE PARK CITIES!!!! The “Y” should concentrate on providing youth programs to Park Cities kids and move this massive workout facility somewhere else. It is a charity subsidized workout gym, ie a WELFARE BUSINESS. Nothing more. Jesus Christ left the “Y” long before they booted Him from their name.
I think the newly renovated Y will be a MAJOR enhancement to the Park Cities and sorely needed. It’s crazy that the PCY is so old and run down. I appreciate that it will be inconvenient during construction but progress often is. Frankly right now I think it is an eye sore to the residential character of neighborhood. Once completed it will attract more families and be a nice improvement to the area.
The history page of the Park Cities YMCA web site lists the start of the PCYMCA as 1944. Was the first PCYMCA built on that parcel of land? When was the current facility built?
This organization brings HP & UP residents together (kids, teens, adults, single, married, families), facilitates and encourages a healthy lifestyle, and promotes community involvement. Sounds like a good thing to expand. The PCYMCA has been a positive influence in our family.
I like the look of the drawings for the new facility. What resident wouldn’t want to get rid of the cars parked around the current building! Seems like the plans try to improve the current look of the facility for the benefit of the neighborhood. I’m looking forward to the PCP article this week.
Look at the plan. It’s twice the size of what exists today. You think you have traffic, noise and parking issues now? Wait until it doubles in size! What a joke the application calls the facility a “community center”. What activities of a community center do they have? Bingo night for seniors? Do they host Boy Scout meetings? Friday night open basketball courts? No, nothing is open and free to the community. You have to be a member, you have to pay your dues. That is not a community center, it is a workout facility, a BUSINESS pure and simple. They do a great job in organizing kids sports activites in the Park Cities and they should stick to that. They should not be allowed to operate a BUSINESS twice the current size in our residential neighborhood.
Don’t beleive me that the Y is a big business? Read this Houston Chronicle article and you will puke:
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/YMCA-leader-s-pay-tops-peers-in-U-S-1613501.php
The director of Houston’s Y makes over $700,000. Thats over 5 times what his peers in charity make. How much does the Dallas director make? WHAT ABOUT THE NATIONAL DIRECTOR???? We all have fond memories of playing on a YMCA team with our friends, but don’t dare close your eyes to this issue. The Dallas director is surely salivating over the chance to double the size of this facility in our neighborhood and he is counting on being able to pull at your heart strings. IT’S A BUSINESS, HE’S A BUSINESSMAN AND HE CAN’T WAIT TO MAKE MORE MONEY AT OUR EXPENSE!!!!!
Look at the plan. Parking will be underground. Therefore parking problems that exist today will be eliminated.
The Y offers tons of activities and events for people of all ages and incomes. They work on a sliding scale so if you are unable to afford dues they can be lowered. Of course they do charge something. They have employees to pay and a facility to maintain. The Y is a net positive for the neighborhood.
The Y has let their facility go to pot and they pay their instructors and staff a pennace. MEANWHILE THEIR DIRECTORS ARE MAKING OUT LIKE BANDITS!!!! Whether the parking is underground or above ground makes zero difference. If you build a facility double in size with twice the parking spaces, you’re going to get more cars, more people, more traffic, more noise. Mr. Duncan Fulton III used that same argument to stop the Chase Bank project. Why isn’t he so concerned about size now? BECAUSE HE IS GETTING PAID A HUGE SALARY TO RAM THIS DOWN THE THROAT OF THE CITY!
@Greenhill – we had our chance to acquire land for a new school 10+ years ago and managed to succumb to the “not in my backyard” hysteria about displacing senior citizens etc. Besides, the parcel the YMCA sits on is not nearly big enough for a school.
Underground parking is the best thing to come out of the new facility. It will get all of the cars off the surrounding streets. I never cease to be amazed by people who buy/build houses near commercial centers, schools, churches etc. who automatically think that they now can change the character of the location. You knew what was there when you bought the property and in most cases that’s why is was less expensive than a similar property not located near one of these sites. The positive influence the PCYMCA has on the community far outweighs any of the complaints about the size of the new facility.
Weren’t they going back to the drawing board after neighbors voiced their concerns?
Also, USING CAPS DOES NOT INCREASE THE VALIDITY OF YOUR ARGUMENT. IN FACT, IT HURTS.
MGBHStar- Are you talking about people like Mr. Duncan Fulton III who bought property a couple of blocks from the Chase Bank building (thanks DCAD!) and who recently fought tooth and nail to take away that owner’s property rights and get him and our city bound up in the courts? Talk about a “not in my neighborhood” mentality. What hypocracy!!! Face the facts, more parking = more cars = more people looking to park on the residential streets because they dont want to get mugged or raped in an underground garage. The good part about the Y is the athletic programs for kids, (which they already make a ton of money off of by using our public parks and playing fields btw.). I have no problem with that. But our residential neighborhoods do not need to suffer because the greedy Y Directors want to make more money out of a bigger facility.
Piper Man: Please give facts and figures behind your statement “the greedy Y directors want to make more money out of a bigger facility”. Do you know this? Give details to demonstrate your point.
I know most of the people that work at the Y, and trust me they aren’t overpaid. Any one of them could leave and work for a “for profit” business and make more money.
Well, if using caps hurt the credibility of your argument, then I don’t know what the getting “mugged or raped” in an underground garage” at the Park Cities Y does to it. Sorry that you live near the Y. Really I am.
@ Another Mother- From the above mentioned Houston Chronicle article: “YMCA Association Board Chairman Will Williams defended Baker’s salary, saying Baker is a qualified and experienced CEO, leading a complex and intricate organization.
The Houston YMCA is the third largest YMCA in the country and has grown faster than any YMCA over the last 10 years, Williams said in a written statement.”
So obviously, like in any other business, the director’s compensation is tied to the growth of the company. Yes the workers are paid nothing at the Y because the directors want to keep a bigger share for themselves. @XT Are you implying that because this Y is in University Park that crime does not take place there? You need to read this paper’s crime page and see that every week multiple cars are broken into there. You also need to check the crime stats with the SMU police and see how many attempted and successful sexual assaults occur in the schools structured parking both above and below ground. No I don’t live near the Y, but that is beside the point. This is an application to change the terms of the Y’s current PD. It is not an application for a building permit to build under the existing zoning, which home owners knew was there when they bought in the area.
Piper man: Until you can tell me the PCYMCA director’s salary you are merely speculating. Guessing. You have no clue.
What’s your beef with the Y anyway? It’s so emotional it sounds personal.
Piper Man, you really must live in a different neighborhood community than the rest of us. The Park Cities that I live in is a great place because of the families who call it home, the local governments, both police and fire/rescue personnel, HPISD, SMU, our churches and the Park Cities YMCA. The Y is our basic community center because neither the Town nor City provides those services to the residents. Our Y supports our youth, our families, the adults, the seniors, and the special needs children through its programs. One recent Park Cities People article stated the Y had over 12,000 youth participants involved in 24different youth programs. Over 300 underground parking spaces to be provided are three times more than the current 109 spots. A new gym, therapy pool, enlarged Pre-K program make up the bulk of the increased size of the building. According to the CUP the cardio/fitness area is increasing by only 1,200 sf. Have you checked the HPISD web site and looked at the demographic study. The school population will increase by 1,900 children from now until 2019 and they have seen over a 300 children increase in the last two years. Also, if you had looked at the site plan in the Y filing, the facility will be located in the same place and the field remains the same. Isn’t that the commercial side of the property by the Church and stoplight? It also seems that the Church and East neighbors are in support of the Y and the improved conditions to come, so take off your blinders and support a good organization who is the last main community supporter to expand their facilities. Every Church, School, and Government structure has seen at least a 50% increase in size and capacity to handle the needs of our community and we didn’t hear any complaints about those organizations.
12,000 kids in 24 different youth programs is great work. Keep it up. I dont even mind that the Y makes tons of money on this, paying only a token fee to use our public parks and school grounds. It is needed in the community. However ask yourself truthfully, when was the last time you went to the Y on Preston for anything other than to get in a workout? How many community events have you attended at this “community center” in the last 5 years? Fact is, what most people really like about the Y takes place in our parks and school yards, not in the facility on Preston Rd.
Think I’m being emotional? Look how the Y is spinning this. They are playing to sweet memories of playing baseball as a child. The great fun parents have on the sidelines watching their kids grow. Pulling at your heart strings with all the good things they do and that have virtually nothing to do with their ratty facility on Preston Road. All that loving goodness is being wrapped around a simple business plan to double that facility’s size, increase their income and increase the director’s salary at the expense of the neighborhood.
Two different issues, youth athletic programs and a proposed giant workout facility on Preston.
Please give us your facts on the Park Cities director’s salary, increased income and doubling the size of space. Your accusations about the large workout building, please give us the facts that you have or that you know. Show us the proof so we can believe your comments and join with you. It is always great to see a big dog fall in disgrace when caught in a lie about what they are selling. But honestly, how many more members could they get? Isn’t every family and every person in the Park Cities already a member because of their kids. Some of us can’t belong to the new Taj Mahal on Mockingbird so we go to the Y. Why can’t we have a nice place to work out or have our kids in classes while we work out. Your comments are so angry and bitter about the Y you sound as though you are just an old curmudgeon who is angry at the world and everybody who is for change.
So,,how about the drug dogs and the high school. Nice Neighborhood. Nice attempted cover up. Doesnt go over to well at a spa party, does it ?
Park Cities- Excellent question about how many PC residents are already being served by the current facility. According to this newspaper, over 12,000 kids are already involved in their athletic programs. How many kids are not on a team because the facility on Preston is too small? How many Park Cities residents are not able to join the Y because the facility on Preston is too small? Last I checked, there was no waiting list to join the PC Y, but there is a waiting list to get onto a cardio machine at the facility on Preston and that is exactly what this zoning change application is about. They want to expand the size to accomodate more customers and make more money. How many of those existing and potential customers actually live in the Park Cities? Once you join the Y you can go to any Y facility in the nation. Are we really talking about expanding this facility on Preston to better serve the Park Cities residents? No, not really, it is just another workout place that anyone from anywhere can utilize. Read the application in this blog and you will see the current square footage and what is being proposed. Read the Houston Chronical article and you will see that increased size of operation is directly tied to increased compensation to the director. As for the Dallas area director’s salary, that is of course information that any other business would want to keep private. You can’t google it and if you or I ask, they won’t tell you. I’d bet it is just as obscene as the Houston director’s. This newspaper should find that out. Yes, I am angry and bitter about a commercial enterprise pimping out our fine city.
I have no problem with the Y increasing and modernizing the building. If this results in a higher income for the Y so much the better. If the director then receives a higher salary because he is responsible for a larger facility and membership base, I have no problem with that either.
I do not hold Piper Man’s negative views on this, but I don’t think that the Church and the neighbors to the east have signed off on any of these changes. The last info I read on that was that they were not pleased with the redo because of the traffic changes, gate situation, and general unknowns based on the increased size/# of patrons. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I thought they were going back to the drawing board after the neighborhood including the church threw in their input.
I think most folks are in agreement that the facility needs to be renovated. However the issue at hand is the size of the proposed new building, and the impact on traffic and congestion in the area. The Y says that it “worked closely ” with surrounding property owners before submitting these plans. That is true, but what they didn’t say was that they essentially chose to ignore any of our recommendations, and moved ahead on their own agenda.
Has anyone noticed that they have eliminated ALL perimeter parking? The only field access will only be from underground parking. No dropping off the kids, the cooler and Grandma anymore!
Also, proposed fitness center will have minimum increase in size. The majority of additional square footage is for new preschool, offices, gym and lobby area.
At a time when our children need more physical outlets the plan for a newly renovated Y seems to be an answer to our collective prayers. We all would benefit from the reconfigured parking options and updated work out spaces. It is a thoughful step forward to develop a resource our entire community can be proud of. Get on board and get fit!!!
Again, I am for the Y changes if they can accomodate the neighbors who seem to have been l eft out to dry. But to think that these changes will magically encourage kids and/or their parents to “get fit” is ludicrous. The Y changes won’t magically make your kids or you want to be healthier just because it is bigger and updated.
@Piper Man–how many of the existing and potential customers of the several churches that have expanded in recent years live in the Park Cities? And why does it matter?
Awesome ! another place for the high schoolers to sell drugs to lil kids. Watch your children! It shouldnt have to be said,but with all the arrests at the high school..ya know…
I think @Piper Man was neglected as a child and obviously harbors some animosity agaist the Y for providing a great environment within our community which he obviously lacked……
Avid- the last time I went to the Y, I was impressed with some youth fitness classes that I saw. They were teaching them to use the free weights and stretching. It was very impressive. I doubt Equinox or Lifetime would do that for teenagers. My whole problem with the Y remodel is the preschool….is there really a need for that? There are about 100 preschool within five miles!
@HP guy- I think you must have wet the bed until you were 18 years old. And you are probably doing it again now that you are 105. Real mature right? Your mental agility is breathtaking. You can’t win your argument and as a result you have only personal attacks left. Awesome.
@4500–the traditonal preschool is being replaced by the Rise School, which serves mostly children with Downs Syndrome.
KZB- Last I checked, churches do not charge a fee for their services so to call parishioners customers is simply misleading. You are really reaching there. Religious institutions enjoy protections in the first amendment that businesses like the Y do not. Apples and oranges. Here’s a better comparison: The Y is sugar coating their zoning change with the story that they will clean up the parking problem in the area and so therefore a building twice in size will benefit the Park Cities community. Chase Bank says they will fix the parking problem in Snider Plaza if they can just build twice the size that is currently allowed. See the pattern? It’s just a snow job, because the more parking spaces you build the more cars you are going to get. Could the Y do a great renovation on their existing building and put underground parking for 300 cars under their ballfield? Yes they could, but then the facility and the revenue wouldn’t double in size and what’s the fun of that?
Piper Man: What is your issue with the Y earning more revenue? Why do you care? Why do you care what the salaries of the employees are?
I really don’t understand why building a nice new facility which might attract more members is a problem.
KZB: i had no idea. That’s totally different. The Rise School is awesome. Thanks for the info.
This seems like such a large potential building for such a small, congested area. Does this all need to take place right in the middle of our little city? Does the School really need to be located here? If not, how would that reduce the size of the building? And if it’s really about kids, why not a facility that only focuses on kids programs, not adult programming (like all the workout classes)? I love it, but have come to realize we can’t have it all in our land-locked area. I wonder if the Y thought about making a deal w the folks at Snider Plaza. I’d think if you put a more appropriate size building in this residential area, you could use some of the leftover $25M to help build some functions in the Chase Bank Snider Plaza site (or other).
HGW-That’s a great idea. Build the monster commercial business in the commercial area, not in the residential.
So what are you all going to do about increase enrollment in HPISD?Build a 3rd/4th story?
@Greenhill, I have not heard a viable alternative to date.
GREENHILL- I’m not clear of your question. The school mentioned to be a part of the proposed Y building is a Pre-K program (not sure if it is limited to that or not), that looks to be up to 70 kids. This school is not/will not be a part of the HPISD. I understand it to be the RISE school, which I believe is currently in Preston Hollow and wanting to move to the Park Cities.
@HGW–Huddleston can’t get the Chase Bank neighbors on board with any change to his eyesore of a building. How on earth would he get approval for a Y? Makes me think Park Cities folks just like ugly, outdated architecture. I see a patern here.
@ Piper–larger buildings don’t pay for themselves, be they commercial enterprises or not. Do you truly think a church’s expansion and additional upkeep/maintenance necessitated by the expansion isn’t paid for by an increase in donations from additonal membership/donations? I also think we would all be amazed by the salaries of the various pastors in our midst. Does anyone out there know what they earn?
At least the Y isn’t so pompous as to buy up entire city blocks, taking valuable tax revenue from the city, in order to expand.
As a property owner on Normandy I can honestly say that the parking and traffic issue has been a problem for over 20 years. This issue has never been addressed and now the proposed building which is almost 3 times the size will further impact the traffic on our residental streets.
There is not enough land for the proposed site nor enough parking. Normandy will continue to be a cut through raceway and their will be increased accidents in this already congested neighborhood. Proposing one entrance and exit should be illegal for fire hazzards and traffic flow. The west of Preston residents are being treated unfairly and all the improvements are on the East side.
It has really been frustrating meeting with the Y for a year to have the totally ignore ANY of our concerns or request.
The Y plans to have space for a private school- why? I have been to Y’s all over the country, none have opted
to burden their facility or neighbors with a school. Of
course the Y has a pre school, but they are planning on building space for the Rise School. Maybe add a Starbucks and charge them rent also?
KZB- I understand the challenge w the neighbors at the Chase Bank site. This will be the same, no doubt. My point was that structures as large as proposed should be put in Commercial districts, not residential. Regarding your point on the architecture, A new building is needed, as well as solutions to parking and crime at the current location. They are headed in a needed direction, but overdoing it significantly by doubling the size of the building. If they ‘have” to provide all they say they have proposed, then it just must happen from a different (larger property) or separate locations. The area they are is just too landlocked.
There is definitely a major problem on Normanady West of Preston with the Y drivers- Cars have been hit with no consequence. Cars have blocked access to the property and have made it difficult for owners to enjoy their property and friends becuase of a few uncaring Y members especially during the Yoga and other scheduled adult excercise times. Normandy should be restricted to resident traffic at all times and not a thoroughfare.
No problem with increasing size of facility, if the Y members respect people’s property and rights. As a member of the Y, I have seen many of the current members that cause the parking problems we have in Normandy. Having a garage may not solve the problem unless UP puts the restrictions on Normandy- because laziness also prevails with uncaring Y members that inconvenience neighbors
On the east side of Preston from Beverly all the way to Shenandoah it is 100% commercial (DCC, at least 3 banks, a 3-story building with parking garage, church, 2-story drive-thru banking location). The west side of Preston, both north and south of Mockingbird, is also commercial (HPVillage and the parking lot). Farther west is Bradfield-not exactly ommercial but certainly not residential. The fact is, the residents near the Y live in a commercial area of town. They just don’t realize it.
@KZB – you are right and this is factored into home sales prices. If you live on that block of Normandy, you probably got a discount over a similar house on the same block of, say, Windsor. I live very close to a school and was able to afford the house because of the lower price due to the location near an institution. I have no problem with the parking. It was part of the deal.
@ KZB,
Why in the world would you use facts? There is no place for those things in this argument.
I agree that the Y should be held accountable (and have to monitor) how their customers act in the neighborhoods behind the Y. But to say this area is residential just isn’t true.
I was opposed to the Church expansion plans, but this is a different animal to me. And although I belong to the Y for my kids sports, I do not use the Y, so I’m not “pro-Y” in the sense that I have anything to gain by this.
The Y is bordered on three sides by residential areas. They are not asking for a building permit to build to the existing zoning that residents knew about and understood was there when they purchased homes near the Y. They are asking to change the zoning to build much more than they can now. If a resident wanted to change the zoning on his lot to build a home twice the size of what is currently allowed it would have zero chance of happening. Why should a commercial interest like the Y be given more lattitude?
I’m sure the Y team will use the argument that the residential areas are insulated and buffered from the Y project by the playing field and Preston road. Unfortunately for them the UP Board of Adjustment recently decided during the Chase Bank debate that the word “adjacent” means property line to property line, regardless if there is a street or field or what ever between homes and the new project. Most of the property lines in UP extend out to the middle of the street, so no matter how they try to spin it with landscaping etc, the new Y project will be directly adjacent to existing residential homes. That’s how they recently shot down Chase Bank and I’m sorry, but you can’t have it both ways.
I fill bad for all you HPISD parents,your schools are so overcrowded.20-23 kid per class is TOO MANY,if you can afford it opt for private.GO GREENHILL HORNETS
Restrictions on Normandy traffic only spreads the cars to the neighboring streets of San Carlos and Shenandoah. This is not a solution. The Y has really not thought this through. Funneling 300 cars in and out of one already congested area will create chaos including back up on Preston in both directions.
And don’t be fooled by the pretty pictures of the new facility hanging in the Y lobby. Note that there are no diagrams of the inside floor plan. This is because over 7000 sq ft are going to be a year round pre school, there will be a full size gym and an enormous lobby area where they plan to sell paraphernalia and smoothies and there is minimal increase in looker room and exercise facility. The new lobby is going to be HUGE as well as lots of additional office space! If the school was eliminated, then the building size could be reduced and the perimeter parking added back into the equation.
I encourage people not to sign the Y letter until they see the full picture of the proposed changes.
Don’t get me wrong, I am for improvements, but just not on the scale that is proposed.
PiperMan is incorrect about property lines. Everyone’s property lines go to the house side of the sidewalk. This is evidenced by the City putting traffic signs in the parkways in front and on the sides of homes. The City owns the street and usually 7-8 feet from the curb. If they didn’t then we all would be collecting fees from the fiberoptic lines and/or City water testing boxes on the streets. The Y property has been commercial since in was given to the Y in 1946. All four corners were commercial properties with the Church, Y, Fry’s Pharmacy and a grocery store. Fry’s and the grocery store were converted to townhomes in the early 80’s. The Y’s use has not changed. The average home in University Park has a bldg to lot coverage ratio of 48% to 60%. The newly completed Unitarian Church has a lot coverage of 51%. The new Y facility will have 42% lot coverage. @Anon is also incorrect on the Preston Rd backup. In getting a copy of the traffic study from the CUP the traffic ratings remain the same at Normandy/Preston and get raised at Shenandoah/Preston. Why does Anon feel an Pre-K school for special needs is so bad? And why should the Y not be able to sell smoothies for the members? If the west neighbors would request a parking district like the SMU neighbors have their problem is solved. Ask any of those folks if their streets are less conjested than before. Also ask them about their property values. They went up and homes are selling faster.
@Greenhill, I “fill bad” for you, too. More than $20,000 a year, and you can’t write a simple subject-verb sentence.
What about the homes behind and to the north of the Y? Were they also commercial? No, they were not. Your statement that all four corners of the Y property were commercial is wrong. Also misleading is the use of building to lot coverage ratio. If the Y kept the exact same footprint they have today, but built 2 stories below and 2 stories above ground, their lot coverage ratio would not increase, but their density certainly would. Also, in many UP commercial areas the property lines run out to the middle of the street and you can see that when you look at the plat for the properties. The city exercises an easement by prescription over the property in order to create sidewalks, streets etc. I’d bet $100 that because parts of Preston Rd were once commercial that the property lines are still just where they were, in the middle of the road. That would make the properties “adjacent” according to the UP Board of Adjustment.
The four corners of Preston/Normandy were all commercial, not the 4 corners of the Y site. Also, selling smoothies would presumably require hefty food-service licensing. I doubt the Y is going to do that.
The way this ‘conversation’ is going I’m betting the Y is somehow part of the Illuminati and also had a hand in assassinating JFK. Conspiracy theories abound!
I apologize for not being clear on my comment. KZB is correct that I meant the 4 corners of Preston/Normandy. Unless PiperMan is talking about Preston Center East there is no property in UP who’s property line goes to the middle of the street. Preston Rd is a Texas State Hwy (St Hwy 289) which means the State owns all of Preston and right of ways on either side. If PiperMan would look at the filed site plan for the Y the property line is 9 feet from the gutter on all four sides of the Y property. The Y is not seeking the density PiperMan mentioned because they didn’t want to over build for the neighborhood but they wanted to solve the traffic and parking problem. The underground parking garage does that by providing parking for members and stops the cars from circling looking for parking spaces before they park in front of someone’s house because there are no spaces available.
The reason the Chase Bank project is now bound up in court is because the property lines of that parcel and the homes across the street run down the middle of the street. The UP Board of Adjustment determined for that reason that the properties are adjacent, which affects many aspects of that project. If what you are saying about the Y property is true, then good for them. The Y project is still too big, out of character for the neighborhood and not neccesary for improving life in UP.
“feel”sorry
All I can say is Wow. You guys are alot smarter than I am.