Re: Is HPISD Getting Big Brother-ish?
Here is the scoop from Helen Williams regarding the cash payments in the HPMS cafeteria.
I talked with our food services coordinator, and here are some of the details:1. By having the students enter their ID numbers, parents are able to see what their children are buying in the cafeteria. Parents of K-4 students are already able to do this in Dinerite.2. Parents will be able to confirm that their students are spending their lunch money in the cafeteria.3. The information also helps the cafeteria manager track inventory and determine what is selling and what is not.4. The information acts as an accounting resource to track how students are paying and to track cash in a systematic way.Reports are that the lines are getting shorter, and we thank parents & students for their patience as we introduce this new system.
Well, they need to do a better spin job on this because most of the HS parents I talked to, and many HPMS/MIS like sending kids with cash – teaches budget lessons, and encourages interpersonal skills like how to borrow and pay back your friends on days you forgot your money.
There is no reason to have to produce an ID number for a cash transaction. These parents dont even realize they are using Skyward…They think by not deposting money, they are not in the system. I’m sorry, but who else has access to this data? On the Skyward website they talk about creating reports – will our personal data be included? Can we opt out?
This is the ultimate helicopter parenting.
the only valid reason is #3. To track inventory.
Cash transactions still go through the computer so #3 and 4 are accounted for even if they are not tied to a student. Thus, requiring students to enter their id numbers for a cash transaction IS big brother watching.
I have worked in the cafeteria for too long to admit– I worked the HS today. I like the new system- once you get the hang of it , it is very easy and efficient.
While it is certainly convenient to have a lunch account, both for parents and students, I do think a middle schooler could be missing a valuable lesson in learning to pay for and manage his/her lunch money. Just my thoughts.
sounds like google and the matrix are teaming to profile our kids to determine how dumb and fat they will be to see if they deserve obamacare or social security. smile people!
@Hal – your post wasn’t there when I made mine. Agree totally. And I don’t want my child’s lunch decisions being tracked … That’s just creepy.
The problem is that they use their student ID for this system. Their student ID is also their password for the computers and schoolwork online, according to my child. If this true, they should assign different unique numbers for the cafeteria system.
The system is truly a disaster. The lines for lunch now take about three times as long as they used to, and now cash transactions take much longer to complete. Not only that, but I was mistakenly charged for a meal that I paid for with cash, and now I have a negative balance on my account which I never put money into in the first place. This may have worked well in the elementary schools, but high school aged students should be able to handle cash responsibly, and have no need for an ineffective system like this.
I think having to enter your number for cash transactions makes the risk of being double charged very high. They can track all those items with the same cash sale button used on Dinerite.
AND my elementary kid uses a different number that is not his SASI number. Why can’t MIS do that too?
My daughter had her SASI number on her hand today in big black marker. Super safe! If that is really her password to the computer system, it is silly to use it in the lunch room too.
WOW…..NO ONE IS EVR HAPPY!
Go to the Skyward website. You will see that the Biometric system eliminates sharing PIN codes or “replacement of student ids.” They identify up-front the problems of their PIN system, without knowing that our school chose to use the school computer/gradebook viewer password for the lunch system. I do not understand why my son’s identity must be verified for them to accept his cash. Assign an id number for cash and have the system default to that number unless a student enters his/her number in order to charge the purchase to his/her account. The system will track all items purchased – it just won’t know by whom.
http://www.skyward.com/DeptDocs/Marketing/Public%20Website/Product_Briefs/Food_Service.pdf
Watch out for Arnold and the Borg – resistance is futile. Reinforces my HP Junior’s opinion that the High School just became a prison with all of the “improvements”.
The powers that be also added these security guards at the HS that do nothing but watch the kids enter the school in the morning, and got rid of the really nice police officer that directed traffic at the staff parking lot on Douglas.
Hal, HPHS Parent and Mom of Boys I agree with your assessement that #3 and #4 are good reasons to monitor what is being eaten. I eat breakfast at the cafeteria with my daughter about once a week and I can tell you that the number of poptarts that are flying off the cart is fairly huge. The exact number would be nice to know.
But #1 and #2 is information I get from my kids when I ask them. I expect them to tell me the truth and I don’t need to double check it. The trouble with having the type of information in #1 and #2 available to the parents is that it is just one programming session away from being able to be accessed by “food counselors”. I can see, in this age of [fill in the blank], how this information can be co-opted by the [again fill in the blank] without the parents knowledge or consent. This of course would be in an effort to change patterns of behavior or limit choices in order to achieve the goal of [once more fill in the blank]. I am trying to avoid any system that moves in the direction of “private info available to unauthorized people”, with unauthorized defined as anyone besides myself.
I do think that the Skyward system is head and shoulders over the yellow cards. If you like the ability to see what your kids are eating it is great. Some people aren’t concerned as much with that information and would just as well not have their kid’s eating habits available to anyone.
The money management aspect of cash cannot be overstated. The late Ron Blue, a precursor to Dave Ramsey, said that even the use of a debit card instead of cash would increase your spending by 30%. A debit card is the same as the dinerite or skyward account. Both my son and daughter are good at managing their lunch money and I think that is a step towards self-sufficiency. Personal opinion.
I am personally in favor of the system simply because it lessens my visits to the ATM and the number of visits I have to make to school for forgotten wallets. However, the lines are ridiculous, and some of the kids had just a few minutes to eat lunch because of the hold-up at the cashier line. Entering your number when you pay cash is a ludicrous exercise.
However, my guess is the students are being forced to enter their numbers so that everyone will eventually use the system. If you have to enter the number anyway, why bring cash? Cuts down on SOME cash control issues as well as the time spent running back and forth to the bank for the staff.
By the way, we all pretty much know what our kids are eating at the HS. They sell burgers, fried chicken, pizza, fettucine alfredo, cookies and yogurt with various toppings. Although there is are healthier options, don’t think the brussel sprouts are flying out of the there. If you look at the menu, sound nutrition is not the first thing that comes to mind. If I am worried about my kid spending their lunch money elsewhere, I’ll take that up with my kid without the assistance of the HPISD system. When you give $20 to go to the movies, who’s tracking that for you?
As for food inventory, I believe that’s a stretch. If it doesn’t sell, they simply don’t prepare it. The menu doesn’t change enough for this one to be an issue. If we’re worried about accounting cash controls, the system won’t solve that problem without making some other changes in procedures that aren’t in place as it is. You have to balance a cash drawer to control cash, kids.
@AMD, Amen! I love the system. It’s such a pain to dig for cash, run to the ATM at 7:00 a.m. etc.
However. Entering an ID to pay cash is nothing less than the ridiculous excercise you go through at Nordstroms, Aveda and when getting a to-go order (in-person) from Olivellas. There is no need for the extra step. And no one should require a shred of my information to take cash for a simple purchase.
Also, I think we should be teaching kids to guard their PINs and other personal information like never before.
This is another situation that would be a slam dunk score for HPISD if they just did one of two things:
1. Say to the parents, “You guys are right, there’s no need so we’re changing it up a tad.”
2. Provide a full list of every person that has the slightest bit of access to the information (teachers etc.) and a list of every single detailed thing they (and Skyward) are using it for.
I guess I’m a bit confused. Are there two different systems? Bradfield kids use Dinerite. Our output report looks different than the report originally posted. Is there also some system called Skyward? Dinerite works pretty well for us. We check occasionally to see if they are eating appropriately. It seems to be efficient at school. I do wish that there was a double-check so that when the cashier puts in the child’s Dinerite number, that the POS would flash the child’s name, for verification purposes.
What if we staged a protest… Like.. have every cash child enter 000000 as their number? Or, have everyone bring their lunch on Friday? (sorry merritt, that might be more of a pain than an ATM)
I’m freaking out about the kids with the numbers on their arms –
James Tucker – can you go up there and tell them to fix this???
Went to the skyward website… the biometric option is even scarier (fingerprints)
Search the Skyward.com web site for the word “privacy” or “privacy statement”. There is absolutely no need to enter an identifying number to track usage data. McDonald’s is a master in inventory control and does not ask for your user id before ordering a burger. I’m really surprised that HPISD did not have to get parental permission to track food purchases of minor children and disclose the privacy protections. I know I had to agree to allow Tom Thumb to track my purchases in exchange for “discounts”. How is this different?
Bdad-yes-2 different systems. And Dinerite does give the kids names when they enter the number. You just have to look a little closer to the top right to see it. When I cashier I always say the child’s name after I enter a number because I have had many kids give the a number that was close to their number, but not correct.
Would most of you MIS/HPMS people be happy if they changed all the access numbers to something other than their SASI number and also made a new generic number for cash purchases?
My kid has had 5 minutes to eat lunch every day, we finally just packed him a lunch.
Agree with the logistics comments, knowing what is ordered and when is important, but knowing who is ordering is irrelevant for a school cafeteria.
Just like the Queue lane, they seemed to have confused process with efficiency. Processes should lead to and support efficiency, not 25 minute lines/ waits.
Yes Kassie. And add HPHS parents to that list too. Freedom and liberty and civil rights for all! Privacy, too!
from the skyward website:
Data Mining:
Data Mining uncovers patterns in your student and financial data. It’s critical for running reports for parents, administrators, and staff
Create custom reports which include only the fields and ranges you select.
Export data to Microsoft Excel or Word for easy mail merge.
Use multiple filters to specify data to be included on the report.
Keep tabs on all discipline-related issues with Skyward’s Discipline module. It’s the best way to track, manage, and report on incidents on both an individual and district-wide level.
Enter attendance and access your student information, including student pictures, from anywhere on your wireless network using your Blackberry, iPhone, iPod Touch, or other hand-held wireless device.
The Health Records module ensures that your district complies with state reporting requirements by accurately tracking all student-related health problems.
All your state requirements are pre-loaded.
Enter medications and track medication history using a simple color-coded on-screen format.
Nurse’s log tracks all student-related health information on one screen.
Is Skyward selling the data? How do we know? Are our childrens’ names still attached? At the elementary schools we had the option to use cash and have an anonymous transaction. Also, that system used the student’s name/some unique number – there was no issue of security of students’ school work on the mainframe nor of access to their grades on the gradebook viewer.
Skyward = Skynet?
@bdad–found out today that when your child pipes up with his/her number for dinerite his/her name shows up on the screen. So, in theory, the cashier could verify the name and number match. Also, you can upload a photo of your child on dinerite for photo verification. The photo pops up on the screen with the child’s name. Of course, that will lead to more Big Brother issues with some parents….
Skyward is the new system for grades, class assignments, scheduling and lunch payments. Apparently, it does everything. So far, however, nobody has been able to access the gradebook because the school has not told anyone how to do so, though I have heard that they intend to do so soon. There were a lot more scheduling goofs this year than in previous years, It may or may not have to do with the new system. Nothing was wrong with the old system as far as I knew. I don’t really see why the went to all the trouble to change it.
And now your child will have attached to their “Permanent Record” for all eternity, that they did not eat their Brussel Sprouts and that is why they must pay a higher health insurance premium when they are 30. I stand corrected this is not Terminator SkyNet or Star Trek Borg this Tom Cruise in Minority Report – Pre-crime. Once biometrics kick in they will be able to send “suggestions” to every kids iPhone about “healthly” eating – with ads for V8 Juice.
I had a Mom, not a school introduce me to the joys of Brussel Sprouts which to this day when I eat them I think of her.